Missionary Talks by J.E. Bowers

Table of Contents

PREFACE. 3

I THE NEW JERUSALEM. 5

II. DEATH THE CONTINUATION OF LIFE. 12

III. THE SECOND ADVENT OF THE LORD. 19

IV. THE END OF THE WORLD. 24

V. THE INSPIRATION OF THE WORD. 27

VI. THE SCIENCE OF CORRESPONDENCES. 33

VII. THE ORIGIN OF EVIL. 40

VIII. THE WAY OF SALVATION. 45

IX. THE HOLY SACRAMENTS AND THEIR USES. 53

X EMANUEL SWEDENBORG, THE PHILOSOPHER. 63

XI SWEDENBORG, THE THEOLOGIAN. 71

PREFACE

T he Talks contained in the following pages, are founded upon actual conversations the author has had on all the subjects treated, with persons in many places of the wide field, in the United States and Canada, over which his missionary labours have extended during the past nine years. Some of these articles were published in the New Church Messenger, and some in the Morning Light. And thereby the thought was suggested that they might serve a use by being given to the public in the form of a little volume.

It has been the desire and aim of the writer, to lead the reader to an investigation of the Doctrines of the New Church. And, in the case of those who have already a general knowledge of them, to stimulate them to further inquiry into those Spiritual Writings which were given to mankind by the lord, through the instrumentality of Emanuel Swedenborg.

For in these Writings are revealed the heavenly doctrines of the Word of God, which is the Fountain of Wisdom. These Writings are, as it were, a "Great Light" in the world, which is intended to enlighten more and more the nations of the earth.

That these TALKS, therefore, may be the means of directing attention to the Divine Teachings of the Word of God : that they may be of use in leading to an acknowledgment of the LORD alone, as the Infinite Source of good and truth, the Father of mercies, who shall finally confer upon all His faithful ones the unspeakable joys of eternal life, is the ardent hope of the author.

J.E.B.

toronto, canada,

November 1st, 1888.

Looking to the Lord

our Father, we adore Thee,
We humbly bow before Thee,

Thou glorious Lord of all;
In mercy now draw near us,
In Thy compassion hear us,

As on Thy name we call.

We feel our imperfection,
And ask Thy kind protection,

From error, sin, and harm ;
Of all good gifts the Giver,
Thou canst our souls deliver,

By Thine own mighty arm.

Thy Sun does shine above us,
We know that Thou dost love us,

Thou light of life Divine;
May Thy good Spirit cheer us,
May angels e'er be near us,

May we be wholly Thine.

In daily tribulation,
In trial and temptation,

Our hope is but in Thee;
We do confess, in meekness,
Our strength is only weakness,

Thy truth can make us free.

* These verses were composed during one of my missionary tours, in the year 1884, while making the journey by railway from Port Huron, Michigan, to Almont, in the same State, a distance of thirty-four miles.—J. E. B.

I THE NEW JERUSALEM.

"That a New Church is meant by the New Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven, Rev. xxi., is because Jerusalem was the metropolis in the land of Canaan ; and there was the temple, the altar, there sacrifices were offered, and thus Divine Worship performed; . . . and also because the lord was in Jerusalem, taught in the temple, and afterwards glorified His Human there."— TCR 782.

INQUIRER.—I presume you are a clergyman. Of what Church, may I ask?

missionary.—I am a minister of the Church of the New Jerusalem, and am doing missionary work. That is, I am engaged in disseminating the truth of the Gospel as it is revealed to us in the New Dispensation.

I.—The New Jerusalem! What Church is that? I have not heard of it.

M.—It is the new Christian Church which is meant in Revelation, chapter xxi., where John says he "saw a new heaven and a new earth."

I.—And you think that means a new Christian Church?

M.—Yes; for the new heaven and the new earth which John saw has no reference to any change which had taken place, or was to take place, in the constitution of the physical heavens or material earth.

I.—Well, but I do not see what other heavens and earth it can refer to. The heaven of the angels is surely not to pass away; and we know of no other earth than this upon which we live.

M.—John says that "the first heaven and the first earth were passed away, and there was no more sea." But the fact is, that after John had written this declaration, the very same firmament which we understand by the heavens according to natural language, and the very same material globe which we mean by the earth, existed as before.

I.—That is very true. But the Revelation is a prophetic book, and John evidently describes some great changes which are to be miraculously effected in the end of the world, when the last judgment is to be executed.

M.—The Apocalypse is a symbolic as well as a prophetic book. The description of the holy city the New Jerusalem, is in the language of a grand symbolism. It is not intended to be understood literally. Only in the spiritual sense shall we be able to see, that is, rationally comprehend, its true import.

I.—In your way of looking at it, then, you spiritualize the whole matter. I have my doubts about that.

M.—You need not have any doubts about it; and all your doubts will vanish when once you obtain a knowledge of the spiritual interpretation of the Word of God; for it makes all things plain. It enables one to see a beauty and a glory in the Sacred Scriptures which otherwise is quite impossible.

I.—But I do not see the necessity of spiritualizing everything, in order to understand the Bible. Is it not declared that the way is so plain that the wayfaring man, though a fool, need not err therein?

M.—Yes; but we have the warrant in the Scriptures themselves, in favour of the spiritual interpretation. Our lord says: "The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (John vi. 63). And the Apostle affirms that spiritual things are to be "spiritually discerned" (1 Cor. ii. 14). By the "spirit," the lord can surely allude to nothing else than to a spiritual meaning contained in His words. And by the expression "spiritually discerned," the Apostle evidently means, intelligently understood, by the higher faculty of enlightened human reason. But let us not drift away from our subject.

I.—You said something about a New Dispensation. Do I understand you to claim that your Church is a New Dispensation?

M.—Yes; the Church of the New Jerusalem is not a sect. It is a New Dispensation of Divine Truth. It is founded upon the Rock of Ages. Its fundamental doctrine is that of the supreme divinity of our lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. The Church of the New Jerusalem is as different from the First Christian Church as that was from the Jewish. In the spiritual writings of this Church we have a method of interpretation which explains the entire Word of God, so that it can be rationally understood.

I.—Your claims seem to me most extravagant. How is it, then, about our great denominations? Are these people all in the dark? Have they none of the light of the Gospel? Does your Church alone possess the truth? And are you and your people alone on the right way to lead them into the kingdom of heaven?

M.—The declaration of the Apostle Peter has always been true, when he says: "God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth Him, and doeth righteousness, is accepted with Him" (Acts x.; 34, 35). In every age, all go to heaven who receive from the Word, and live according to heavenly principles. The lord is the Father of all. He does not withhold His blessings from the many, to dole them out to a favoured few. He is "good to all, and His tender mercies are over all His works."

I.—From what you have said, the New Jerusalem must be a very wonderful institution. What astonishes me is that I have never heard of it before. There are none of your people in these parts, are there? For if so, they must keep themselves very quiet.

M.—Yes; our people as a rule are not aggressive. In some cases they are perhaps too quiet. They find but few who manifest any disposition to investigate our system of doctrine; and they are not willing to force their belief upon the notice of others.

I.—Well, but it seems to me that if they are, as you appear to think, the custodians of the doctrines and principles of a New Dispensation, they ought to let the world know all about it, and not keep their light hidden under a bushel.

M.—They are always delighted to communicate the truths which are so precious to them, to others. Indeed, it is to them a cause of sadness that there are nowadays so comparatively few who care for a spiritual and rational interpretation of the Divine Word. The lord says: "If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink" (John vii. 37). Thirst signifies desire; and the water of life is spiritual truth which men can drink, that is, receive into their understandings, so that it may be united with heavenly good in their hearts and minds.

I.—It seems to me that if your doctrine were true, there ought not to be a few only who believe in it. Is it not a fact, that many people nowadays are always looking out for something new?

M.—Yes; there are doubtless many who are always looking for some new sensation. People will go in large crowds to hear a sensational preacher; but comparatively few are satisfied with the plain and simple teachings of the everlasting Gospel. A few months ago I saw an illustration of this. In the city where I reside, a noted sensational preacher was holding forth for a few weeks in an extensive rink. I went to hear him one night. Of course the place was full to the doors. But the laughter and clapping of hands, occasioned by the sharp sayings of the speaker, gave me the impression of being rather in a place of amusement, than in a meeting intended for religious instruction.

I.—I presume many would even be benefited by that kind of preaching. Most people have got away from the idea of putting on a long face when they go to church.

M.—That may be. People need not put on an appearance of sanctimoniousness in order to be devout worshippers in the lord's house. But when the apostles went forth preaching the Gospel, they were in solemn earnest. We have no example in all their evangelistic labours, of their turning a religious meeting into a place of amusement. And such a proceeding is evidently unbecoming in Christians at this day.

I.—As my time is nearly up, I want to go back to a former part of our talk. You said, did you not, that by the New Jerusalem is meant a new Christian Church? Now how do you make good that assertion?

M.—By Jerusalem, in the Old Testament, the Church is represented. There are many sublime passages where Jerusalem is mentioned. Let me give you a few examples: "Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; they shall rest that love thee" (Ps. cxxii. 6). Here the Church is evidently meant. And it is written: "Behold, I create a new heaven and a new earth." And immediately after follow these words: "Behold, I create Jerusalem an exultation, and her people a joy; that I may exult in Jerusalem, and joy in my people" (Isa. lxv. 17, 18). And we read in other places that "the lord hath redeemed Jerusalem"; that "the word of the lord shall go forth from Jerusalem"; and that "Jerusalem shall be called the city of truth, the mountain of holiness."

I.—These are certainly very beautiful passages; and it looks as if there was something in what you say.

M.—The holy city, the New Jerusalem, represents a New Church. And it is the new Christian Church, because in it the lord jesus christ, its Divine Founder, alone is worshipped. There are many who have never heard of this Church. But when they do hear of it, and learn what it is, they will find that it is the kingdom of God on earth, the glory of the last days, the tabernacle of God with men.

I.—How do the doctrines of your Church differ from the creeds of other Churches?

M.—There are great differences between the teachings of the New Church and those of the various denominations, respecting all subjects. But I will answer your question, if you please, by showing you the difference of view on an important point. I allude to what is perhaps the most important point in our whole theology, because it is of a fundamental nature.

I.—Very well; I shall be interested to hear it.

M.—The central and most vital doctrine of the Christian religion is that respecting God. Our doctrine is derived from no other source than the Word; it is according to its spiritual sense, and is to be confirmed by its literal sense. The New Church teachings are based upon what is contained in the Sacred Scriptures as a whole, and not merely upon a certain class of passages.

I.—Well, what does your Church teach about God?

M.—The Scriptures everywhere teach that there is one God. "The first of all the commandments is: Hear O Israel, The lord our God is one Lord;" or, as the Jewish Rabbis translate the passage: "Hear, O Israel, The lord our God the lord is one" (Mark xii. 29; Deut. vi. 4).

I.—Do you believe in the Divinity of Christ?

M.—We do not only believe in His Divinity, but in His Supreme Divinity. We do not believe that He is a third part of God only. According to our doctrine, derived from the Holy Word, He is the only Divine and therefore the one God. We worship Him as our Father in the heavens. For He is "God over all, blessed forever."

I.—Then it seems you do not believe in the Divine Trinity?

M.—Most certainly we believe in the Trinity. Let me give you the first article of our creed. It is as follows: "I believe in the lord jesus christ, the Creator, Redeemer, and Saviour, the only God of heaven and earth, whose Humanity is Divine, and in whom is the Divine Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in essence and in person one."

I.—I see; you do not believe in the three Divine persons. But does not the Bible teach that there are three persons and one God?

M.—The Bible nowhere speaks of persons, in connection with the subject of the Trinity. God exists in one glorious and adorable Person. The Divine Trinity does not consist of three persons. It is in the one person of the lord jesus christ. The Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one in Him, comparatively as the soul, body, and activity are one in man. Man is created in the image and after the likeness of God. In man, therefore, the trinity is finite, while in God it is infinite.

I.—It seems to be very plain to you. But it has always seemed to me that the subject of the Trinity is a great mystery, which no one is able to understand.

M.—But, my friend, the lord says to His disciples: "Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God" (Luke viii. 10). "To know" here means to understand. For we cannot know anything about a subject, except in so far as we understand it. I grant you that it is a mystery, but not an incomprehensible mystery, as you seem to think. We have no more difficulty in forming intelligent ideas respecting the Trinity in God, than as to the trinity in man.

I.—We have been taught, you know, that it is not desirable for us to apply our own fallible reason, to these subjects. They are matters of faith. That is, we are to believe them, though we do not understand them.

M.—From the fact that our Creator has endowed us with the faculty of understanding or reason, I think we may conclude that it is perfectly legitimate for us to make use of that faculty. It is surely allowable for us to reason, in a good sense, that is, to think logically and rationally, concerning spiritual things as well as natural things. It must be well-pleasing to the lord for us to make a proper use of our mental as well as of our physical powers.

I.—Well, you have another way of looking at these subjects. But tell us more about the Trinity.

M.—With great pleasure. Now if we think logically about the Trinity, we find that the idea of three persons in the Godhead will not do at all. Because, three persons are three beings. Do you see? Three persons, three beings, three gods! This is the analysis of the matter. And you can come to no other conclusion, if you think of the subject at all. As a matter of fact, the dogma of the tripersonality of God is an absurdity, and not a mystery.

I.—Now you are coming to the point. But does not the fact that Jesus prayed to the Father show that there must have been two persons, at least? How can you explain this?

There is no difficulty about it. Jesus Christ was "God manifest in the flesh." He was "the Word made flesh dwelling among us." Jehovah, the Creator, by assuming the Human and coming into the world, became also the Saviour and Redeemer. The Father and Jesus were not two persons. Jesus said: "I and my Father are one" (John x. 30).

I.—But they certainly appeared to be two persons; because Jesus prayed to His Father, and often spoke of Him as of another.

M.—Very true; they appeared to be distinct beings until after Jesus was glorified. This was because there were in the lord two natures, the Divine and the Human. By the Father is always meant the Divine in the Lord. And the Son, the man Jesus Christ, was the Human which Jehovah assumed, and by means of which He was "Emmanuel—God with us" (Matt. i. 23). The Apostle teaches the true doctrine, when he says: "God was in Christ," etc. (2 Cor. v. 19). The Father was in the Son, the Divine was in the Human, the Word was made flesh. God was in Christ; the infinite Spirit dwelt in Him, performing the work of redemption; comparatively as the Soul or finite spirit is in us.

I.—As you seem to understand this subject, I presume you are able to give us the explanation of the reason why Jesus prayed to the Father.

M.—With regard to the Human which Jehovah assumed, the lord was "a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief" (Isa. liii. 3). He "was tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin" (Heb. iv. 15). As to the Divine, Jesus was the God of the universe. But as to the Human, He passed through the most direful temptations. He was assaulted by the infernal spheres of all the powers of darkness combined. Thus He suffered infinitely more than any merely finite human being could ever endure. And in these states of humiliation He prayed to the Father. By the Father, that is, the Divine, the lord jesus our Saviour was omnipotent. Thus He was "the mighty God, the Father everlasting, the Prince of Peace" (Isa. ix. 6).

I.—Well, this is to me an entirely new interpretation of this matter. And although it is essentially different from what I have always been taught, I must confess that it seems reasonable.

M.—The New Church interpretation of this subject is as scriptural as it is reasonable. The teaching that Jesus prayed to the Father as a separate person, would lead directly to the idea of one god praying to another god. And this idea is a fantastic notion.

I.—That is putting it in a pretty strong light, but it does seem to be a wrong idea altogether.

M.—Let us consider further, that in no other way than by assuming the human, could Jehovah become the Saviour and Redeemer. He "made bare the arm of His holiness" (Isa. lii. 10). The Human was the arm of His strength. By this He came in contact with the powers of darkness. He overcame the hells, which had begun to threaten universal destruction. He burst the bars of death, triumphed over the tomb, and glorified His Humanity. To glorify means to make Divine. Thus, at the same time that the lord's glorification was going on, He performed the Divine work of redemption, and so prepared the way for the salvation of the human race.

I.—Do you believe, then, that all men can be saved?

M.—All shall be saved who come to the lord, that is, all who believe in Him, acknowledge Him to be the God of heaven and earth, and look to Him and pray to Him for strength and wisdom to do His will. To do His will is to keep His commandments. The lord invites all to come unto Him. No one is excluded. "Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely" (Rev. xxii. 17).

I.—I must admit that it sounds to me like good Bible doctrine. But I am not quite satisfied yet about the Trinity. I would like to know more clearly how you understand the lord jesus christ to be the only God.

M.—When the lord was glorified, the Divine and Human were united. Then Jesus no more prayed to the Father, but He said: "Unto me is given all power, in heaven and in earth." Because all power is given to Him, it follows that He is "the Almighty," as He is called in the Apocalypse (Rev. i. 8). In the lord's reply to Philip, He said: "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father." "The Father dwelleth in me" (John xiv. 9. 10). In the lord Jesus Christ the Divine was made manifest, and the invisible God became visible. The lord declares that the Father dwells in Him: and we read that the Holy Spirit proceeds from Him. "He breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit" (John xx. 22). We see from this that the Divine Trinity is in the lord jesus christ. In His one glorious Person He is God, and Him alone we ought to worship. The apostles teach this doctrine very plainly. Paul says: "In Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Col. ii. 9). And John declares: "This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols" (1 John v. 20, 21).

I.—I have heard it said that the Swedenborgians deny the evangelical doctrine of the atonement. Now what is your view of the subject? Do you believe that through the sacrifice of Christ the just demands of the Father were satisfied?

M.—We do not believe in the generally received doctrine of the vicarious atonement. That is, we do not understand the Scriptures to teach that the lord Jesus Christ was in any sense a substitute. In the person of the lord Jesus, the Creator Himself became the Saviour and Redeemer of the world. We read in a number of passages in Isaiah, especially in chapters xliii., xliv., and following chapters, that Jehovah God, is the Saviour and Redeemer. He did not require a substitute, for He came Himself to accomplish the Divine work of redemption. We do not, therefore, believe that the lord Jesus Christ is a second person in the Godhead, who suffered and died in man's stead, and thus satisfied any demand of the Father.

I.—But in what other way could man be redeemed? Was not the atoning sacrifice of Christ the plan decided upon in the just counsels of the triune God, for the salvation of the world? Is not this the scheme of redemption plainly laid down by the apostles in their epistles?

M.—We do not find such a doctrine as the vicarious atonement plainly laid down in any part of the Scriptures. This idea of substitution, to satisfy an imaginary demand of our heavenly Father, is essentially erroneous. The doctrine taught in the Word of God with regard to the atonement is something very different. It would certainly not be just for an innocent person to be required to suffer and die in the place of the guilty.

I.—You surprise me by such assertions. Was not Jesus Christ, by His crucifixion, a sacrifice for the sins of the world? Do you mean to say that the doctrine which has been taught by the Church for more than a thousand years, is wrong, and contrary to the teachings of the Bible? If this is the case, what countless millions of Christians have been in the dark! And it seems high time for you New Jerusalemites to bestir yourselves to enlighten the world. But I fear it will be a long time before you will convert the world to an acceptance of your peculiar ideas. It seems to me that people will be much more apt to cling to "the faith once delivered to the saints."

M.—My dear sir, it is a remarkable fact, that there are at this day many who do not cling to what you call "the faith once delivered to the saints." True, there are those who hold on to the old religious views, and do not trouble themselves to investigate anything else. They are satisfied with what they have, and do not care to look for anything better. But at this moment the world is full of sceptics, that is, doubters. They are to be found among all classes of men throughout the whole Christian world. You will even find them among the members of the popular Churches. The sceptics are not all infidels. On the contrary, many of them believe in a Supreme Being. Sound reason tells them that there must be a Creator and Preserver of the universe. They have a sort of veneration for an unknown Deity. But they discover the manifest fallacy of certain religious views. Then they become doubtful on other points. They reject one thing after another, until the entire system of "orthodox" teaching is gone.

I.—It seems to me that I have switched you off the track. We were talking about the atonement. And I am not ready to drop the subject yet. You have such new and strange ideas, that I must hear more. I will not attempt to discuss the subject with you, but will hear what you have to say. I want to find out whether there is anything in your doctrine.

M.—It is always a pleasure to talk to any one who is willing to listen. But I do not wish to do all the talking. You shall have the opportunity to say whatever you may desire.

I.—I confess my ignorance on these matters. In fact, I know very little about them, although I have been pretty thoroughly drilled in our evangelical doctrines. And sometimes it has almost seemed to me as if I were half of a sceptic myself. You said that a sceptic was a doubter. And upon my word, doubts will sometimes arise in one's mind in spite of one. A man cannot well help thinking, even if he is not much disposed to reason.

M.—Paul says, "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." And in order to prove anything, so as to understand it, we must examine, compare, investigate, and then draw conclusions. We have not time to discuss the matter fully to-day; but the theory of the vicarious atonement is alike contrary to reason and Scripture. As soon as men look into it, they see this and drop it. In fact, many of the preachers themselves have dropped it.

I.—It is very true; somehow the style of preaching seems to have changed considerably, during the past twenty or thirty years. There is not so much "fire and brimstone" about it as there used to be.

M.—The fallacy of the vicarious atonement resulted from a misunderstanding of the sacrifices offered by the children of Israel. "The sacrifices of the Mosaic law do not represent the punishment of sin. They represent the consecration of every affection of the mind to the lord." "The Jewish sacrifices were intended to represent the worship of the lord, from the affections and perceptions of a purified heart and mind" (Noble's Appeal, p. 431). Christ was indeed a sacrifice for the sins of the world; but not a vicarious sacrifice. It is erroneous to think that Jesus Christ suffered in man's stead, in the sense of His assuming the just punishment which sinners bring upon themselves as the result of violations of the laws of Divine order. "The soul that sinneth it shall die." It has been taught that Christ's righteousness is imputed to man, by virtue of his having faith. But one person's righteousness cannot be imputed to another. A man cannot be saved by mere thinking. He must cooperate with the lord, and be up and doing. "Cease to do evil; learn to do well." The man who does that which is lawful and right, shall save his soul alive. "Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways, for why will ye die?" A man cannot become good, except in so far as he ceases to do evil. We must do the work of repentance and shun evils as sins against God. Evils are sins against God, because they are contrary to the laws of Divine Order, which are for the government of human society.

I.—Now you are throwing some light on the subject. I see you are making a strong point in favour of personal righteousness. And the lord does say: "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me" (John xiv. 21).

M.—Yes; the apostles also teach that the only way of salvation is by living according to the Divine commandments: "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God" (1 Cor. vii. 19). And faith without works is a dead, and not a living faith (James ii. 20, 26). I should think a man would be ashamed to want to go to heaven on the merits of another. There is nothing manly about this. Genuine Christian principles will lead a man to be a true man in every particular.

I.—I see that your view is quite different from that generally entertained. But you seem to find Scripture to prove your positions. We cannot gainsay what the Book says.

M.—There is another point I would like to speak of in connection with this subject. There never was in God any wrath that required to be appeased. Nor was there ever in Him any offended justice that demanded satisfaction. The Divine Father was never angry toward His children. "God is love." He is also infinite and immutable. He is, therefore, pure love itself, and this "the same yesterday, and to-day, and for ever." And so we read that "God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son," etc. (John iii. 16). This is said with direct reference to the work of redemption. The Divine Love caused God to assume our nature, and thus to come into the world, that He might subdue the powers of darkness, and so make it possible for man to be saved.

I.—That there is in God no wrath, is another of your peculiar ideas. But you surely do not deny that God hates iniquity? Does not the Book say so?

M.—The lord our heavenly Father is Divine, perfectly just, and infinitely good and loving. He cannot, therefore, do anything of an arbitrary nature. The Scriptures do not teach such a doctrine as the vicarious atonement. "Redemption was a work purely Divine." It was performed from Divine Love, according to Divine Wisdom, and by Divine power. It was accomplished in the fullness of time, at just the right period in the world's history. The lord came to seek and to save that which was lost. By glorifying His Human, the Lord acquired a Divine Natural Humanity. By this He can succour all those who are willing to come unto Him that they may have eternal life. The everlasting arms can reach down to man, yes, even beneath him, and lift Him up to ever higher states of life. By the Divine influences, even the lowest of the lowly may gradually be regenerated, and become new creatures, and finally enter into the unspeakable felicities of heaven.

I.—I am very glad to have heard your explanations, and do not know that I can object to any of them.

M.—I have been able to say very little, and that little has been very imperfectly expressed. These are grand themes for us to consider, and it requires time to do so properly. True religion, genuine Christianity, is nothing less than a Divine Science. The principles of this Science are revealed to us by the Lord Himself, and it ought to be our supreme delight to study them.

I.—Yes; I feel that many of us are altogether too indifferent about these subjects. Most men, and women too, are absorbed in the things of this world. The things of time and sense take up all their attention. But when we stop to think about it, we see that we cannot stay here very long. And while we do stay, we ought to be doing something to prepare for a better state of existence.

M.—Very true; it is of the greatest importance. For what we become while in this world, as to our essential life and character, we shall be in the eternal world. Death is but the continuation of our life. As to the spirit we are immortal, and we our very selves shall live for ever.

II. DEATH THE CONTINUATION OF LIFE.

"When the body is no longer capable of discharging its functions in the natural world, corresponding to the thoughts and affections of its spirit, which are derived from the spiritual world, the man is said to die. . . . Yet the man does not die, but is only separated from the corporeal frame which was of use to him in the world: the man himself lives."—H. H. 445.

Inquirer.—I have for some time been wishing for an opportunity to have a talk with you on religious subjects. I presume we shall not agree altogether. But by comparing views we may possibly obtain more light. There is always room for us to grow in the knowledge of the truth.

Missionary. —Yes; it always gives me great pleasure to meet with any one who is willing to talk about spiritual things. One does not very often meet with such people, in these days. Most folks are so absorbed by the things of this world that they have no time for anything else. They do not feel disposed to consider anything except what ministers to their merely natural life. In fact, many think it a waste of time to give any attention whatever to spiritual subjects.

I.—Or, probably it is sufficient for them to go to church on Sundays and hear the preaching. As you suggest—some people do not require much spiritual pabulum.

M.—Yes; people go to church. Many, doubtless, go from force of habit. It is fashionable and respectable to attend some popular church. I do not wish to say anything harsh, but must speak as I think. And here are some things which lead one to think that there are those who imagine that if they serve God by going to church on Sunday, they can serve the world, the flesh, and the devil, the remaining six days of the week.

I.—If you will allow me to change the subject, I should like to say that I have been personally acquainted with some of your New Church people, and have found them to be of more than ordinary intelligence. The Swedenborgians I have known were kind and good neighbours —respectable people. A friend of mine once expressed the opinion that the Swedenborgians were not Christians. I happened to be posted a little on this point, and corrected him. I told him there was no reason why they should not be looked upon as Christians, because they believe in Christ. Indeed, they go further than others. They go so far as to say that the lord jesus christ is the only God, and that all the Divinity is in Him. This is your doctrine, is it not?

M.—It is. And it is the doctrine of the Word. In the first chapter of the Revelation the lord jesus christ is called the Almighty; and beside Him there is no God.

I.—That is plain enough. But I should like to hear your views about the resurrection. I understand that you deny the resurrection of the body. You say that when the body is once put in the grave, it will never come forth again? This is an interesting subject upon which I am anxious for more light. If it is not too much trouble to you, I should like to hear your explanation.

M.—It is no trouble to me at all. On the contrary, it is a peculiar delight to me to explain these things so far as I am able. But you wish me to say something about the resurrection. Well, in the first place, we do not believe in the resurrection of the body, that is, the material body, because the Scriptures do not teach such an idea. The doctrine of the Scriptures is that man is an immortal being by virtue of his spirit. The body is mortal, and is put off at death, never to be resumed. It is laid aside like a worn-out garment, for which we have no further use. Death is the continuation of life as to man's spirit. Indeed, according to the Divine teaching, man does not die at all. The lord says: "I am the resurrection and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live; and whosoever liveth and believeth in me, shall never die" (John xi. 25, 26).

I.—It is a new idea that man does not die at all; but in the passage you have just quoted, the lord plainly says so.

M.—Death is only a short, sweet sleep. There is suffering from disease, which is sometimes very severe. But dying itself is just like going to sleep. Death is a brief, unconscious state, lasting in ordinary cases, till the second or third day. The lord, who is life itself, ,and imparts life to all finite beings, then by means of angels or ministering spirits, awakens a person out of the sleep of death. He finds himself actually, consciously, bodily, that is, as to his spiritual body, in the eternal world. He has left nothing behind except his material body. He has "shuffled off the mortal coil." All that constitutes him a human being, remains. He has the use of all his faculties. His senses are more active than during his earth-life. He has his thoughts, affections, desires, aspirations, and delights. The man himself has entered into an immortal state of existence. He has left the natural world and has become an inhabitant of the spiritual world, in which he is to dwell to eternity.

I.—Your doctrine seems to be quite definite; but I must ask you a question. How do you know that a person is raised up into the life of the other world on the second or third day after death?

M.—The doctrines of the New Church can all of them be confirmed by the letter of the Word. And as to the point referred to in your question, we read: "After two days will He revive us; in the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight" (Hosea vi. 2). And the lord's resurrection also took place on the third day.

I.—Yes; this seems to make the matter plain enough. And I begin to see that if your doctrine is true, the idea of the resurrection of the body cannot be true. But I should like to hear more proof from the Scriptures.

M.—It is to the Scriptures we go for the confirmations of our doctrine. And the Scriptures, according to a rational interpretation, plainly show that the idea of the resurrection of the physical body is one of the greatest of absurdities. We read: "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it" (Eccles. xii. 7). Moses appeared on the mount at the transfiguration of our lord, and was seen as a man. But his material body had been dissolved fifteen centuries before (Luke ix. 28-36). The rich man and Lazarus are described as having bodies immediately after death. The former had eyes and a tongue; and the latter had a finger (Luke xvi. 19-24). After they died, and their material bodies were buried, they existed in their spiritual bodies. In the other world their conditions were reversed, because the one was a good man and the other an evil man.

I.—You are bringing out some things I never thought of before.

M.—Let me give you only one or two more passages. The great multitude of the redeemed, who had been gathered home to the heavenly world from all parts of the habitable earth, whom John saw, had bodies. They were there in their spiritual and immortal bodies. They stood before the throne. They were clothed in white robes. They had palms in their hands.

I.—I must say you are bringing some strong evidence. The subject is now beginning to become plainer to my mind than ever before. And I begin to see the point as to the resurrection of the body. Since good people after death go to heaven, and exist there in the spirit form, or in a spiritual body, they never will require the natural body any more. In this way of looking at it, it would be a queer thing for all the countless myriads of blest spirits who have for thousands and thousands of ages been before the throne praising and glorifying God, to be obliged to come back to this earth some time and be reunited to the body they once had while living here.

M.—That is stating the reductio ad absurdum of the matter pretty well. It seems that the proofs cited have helped you to understand the subject better; and I am glad you see it so clearly. But I have given you very little of the Scripture proof. The Bible is full of it. And the facts of all true science and philosophy come to our aid in confirmation of the doctrine. Every rational consideration goes to show that man is essentially a spiritual being; that the spirit is in the human form; that it is in his spirit that man is raised up and continues to live in the spiritual world.

I.—How, do you suppose, did men ever get into the notion of the resurrection of the natural body?

M.—From a natural idea they imagined heaven to be a place located somewhere in the material universe. People sing about "our homes beyond the stars," and "our mansions in the skies." One erroneous idea begets another. If heaven be thought of as a place or region in the material universe, it follows that if people are ever going to dwell there, they will require a body. Many suppose that heaven is to be established here on earth, and that the souls of men have no form, or actual, or conscious existence, until the general resurrection day, when all the dead bodies of all who have ever lived on the planet shall come forth from their graves. But I need say no more; you know the rest of it.

I.—Yes; I have heard a great deal of imaginary nonsense, and am glad to get hold of something substantial on the subject at last. How I do wish I could have become acquainted with these views years ago! But how do you understand the Apostle Paul in the fifteenth chapter of First Corinthians?

M.—Paul teaches the true philosophy of the resurrection and future life of man. He declares that "there is sown a natural body, and there is raised a spiritual body" (verse 44). This is equal to saying that man, as an organized being, has a spiritual body which is clothed, as it were, with a natural body, by means of which he can live and perform uses during his probationary state in the material world. And the language of the Apostle is also equal to saying that when the natural body has served its purpose, it is put off to return to its native dust, while man, the immortal being, is raised up and continues to live in his spiritual body. This is the logic of the Scriptures throughout.

I.—I feel convinced that such is the case. I want to know more, and must know more, about these things.

M.—Those who thirst, may go to the Fountain of the Water of Life, and drink to the delight and refreshment of their souls.

I.—I have read through the little book, Heaven and Hell, that you gave me. It contains a great deal of definite information. But, I must confess, there are some things in it that seem strange. Do you believe it is all true?

M.—I do not doubt the truth of any part of it, any more than the fact of my own existence. I do not believe it because Swedenborg wrote it; but because I can plainly see that it is the teaching of God's Word. Seeing rationally is believing truly. To see, means to understand. And the understanding of genuine truth brings to the mind a rational conviction. Our doubts vanish.

I.—There is much in the little book I do not yet fully understand. But I presume no one can grasp it all at once.

M.—It is by degrees that we acquire knowledge. And it is as impossible to comprehend all the truths of a sublime theme with a single effort of the mind, as it is to see the beauties of universal nature at a single glance.

I.—According to this doctrine heaven does not seem to be located far off in some region of the physical universe. We used to sing about "our homes beyond the stars," and "our mansions in the skies." But how could heaven be beyond the stars? Is not the immensity of space boundless, so far as the finite mind can form an idea of it? And it seems to me that heavenly mansions must exist in a heavenly world, and not in the skies of physical space. What I like about it is that Swedenborg describes the spiritual world as no less real than this. But give us some of your ideas about heaven.

M.—Heaven is a regenerate state of the human mind. A mind formed by a life in accordance with heavenly principles, is a micro uranos, or little heaven, that is, a heaven in the least form. Heaven is also a place, corresponding to the heavenly state. But it is not a place according to a natural idea. That is, it is not a place located in, and occupying space in, the material universe.

I.—What interested me so much is that instead of vague ideas, and visionary notions, Swedenborg gives us definite information on the subject. There is something substantial about it that the mind can lay hold of and rest upon.

M.—That heaven is primarily, a good state of the human mind, the lord teaches when He says: "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you" (Luke xvii. 20, 21). The kingdom of God is within us in so far as we receive the Divine love and truth, and these become the ruling principles of our lives.

I.—That is equal to saying that heaven will be wherever there are heavenly-minded people. And I presume it is because the kingdom of God is to be established by the reception of love and truth, that we are taught to pray: "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so also upon the earth" (Matt. vi. 10). But where is heaven as a place?

M.—The spiritual world is in immediate connection with the natural. The connection is of cause and effect. The natural world consists of effects. And the causes which produce them, operate through the spiritual world from God, who is the first cause, or the fountain of all being.

I.—You are now stating a philosophy which many of our theologians have not yet dreamed of.

M.—But it is the philosophy of the Scriptures, nevertheless. And it is rationally explained in the writings of the New Church. But I must answer your question as to where heaven is as a place. The spiritual world consists of three grand divisions, the heavens, the hells, and the intermediate state or world of spirits. We speak of the heavens above, or of the bright and beautiful world on high; and good people are called the children of the Highest, because the idea of what is elevated is a correspondence of what is interior, exalted, or Divine, with respect to state. The hells, on the other hand, are called the lower regions.

I.—There is something grand about this principle of correspondence in the sense in which you use the term. It seems to give one a comprehensive idea of things. But I do not wish to interrupt you.

M.—When a person enters into the other life (as is the case with every one at the close of this life), he finds himself at first in the intermediate state or world of spirits. This is the place of preparation for the final abode, either in heaven or in hell, according to the internal character. Above the world of spirits are the heavens, and beneath are the hells. And the Lord is called the Highest because He is exalted in majesty and glory above the heavens. Our doctrine teaches that He appears before the face of the angels as a sun. And this is according to the Word; for David says: "The lord our God is a sun and shield" (Ps. lxxxiv. 11).

I.—Your explanation is more satisfactory than the notion of heaven being located beyond the stars, or our mansions being in the skies. This is too much like "building castles in the air," to suit me. Let us have something that we can believe intelligently.

M.—Man after death exists in the human form, in his immortal body, and thus lives in the spiritual world. In that world all things are composed of spiritual substances, in like manner as in this world all things are made of material substances. The things of heaven are substantial and stupendous realities. The glories of the heavenly world cannot be adequately described in natural language. The spirit of man is so constituted that it is a suitable world for him to dwell in to eternity. The souls of men are not formless essences, flitting about in the universe, a sort of spectres which are something and yet nothing. The human soul is the human form, manifested in a spiritual body. The spirit of a man is the man himself, divested of the material body, by virtue of which he lived in this natural world.

I.—Your explanation is clear; but how about the passage to the other world? I presume, since it is not necessary for the spirit to travel to a place located beyond the stars, it will not require very long for a person to arrive there?

M.—No; it is just as easy for any one to go to the other world as it is to fall asleep and wake again. The sleep of death lasts only a few hours, or at the longest, until the second or third day; and as soon as a person awakes, he finds himself actually in the spiritual world.

I.—This is very different from the notion that the spirit sleeps in the grave till the day of judgment, when the body that had been buried perhaps some thousands of years before, is supposed to be raised again. But how do you prove your view of the nearness of the other world to this, from the Scriptures?

M.—One of the striking passages is that in 2 Kings vi. 15-17. It was with his ordinary bodily sight that the prophet's servant saw the army of the Syrians. And the account goes on to state that in answer to the prayer of Elisha, "the lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw; and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha." This was a vision in the spiritual world, which he saw with the eyes of his spirit. And he did not need to go away from the place where he was, to see the vision. The veil of the physical conditions which ordinarily exist, was for the moment drawn aside, and he saw.

I.—This was certainly a remarkable circumstance, and I see that it plainly proves the point. I suppose you have no trouble to find more passages of the same kind?

M.—There are many similar things in the Scriptures. Read, for example, the announcement of the birth of the Saviour in the second chapter of Luke. It is most sublime and beautiful. "There were in the country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." And after several particulars are related, it is said: "And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host, praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good-will toward men" (Luke ii. 8, 13, 14). The spiritual sense of hearing, as well as of sight, was opened in the shepherds at the time. And heaven, with its bright and beautiful angels—its messengers of peace and joy and good will to men—was not far away from them. When their natural sight returned, the angels seemed to them to go away from them into heaven, as is stated (verse 15).

I.—I must thank you most heartily for the explanations you have given. And now I should like you to answer a few questions in the same line of thought. My friend here is becoming interested in these things, and I ask for the sake of his information, as well as my own. And the first question is: Do the inhabitants of the other world, that is, angels and spirits, live in houses, in a similar manner as the people in this world?

M.—I shall with the greatest pleasure reply to your questions according to the best light I have from the New Church writings, which are, in my view, the lord's plain teachings of what the Scriptures contain on the subject. In these writings the lord no more speaks "in parables," saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like unto" this or that. According to the lord's promise to His disciples, in John xvi. 25, He now "shows plainly" the real truth, on this and other momentous themes. The constitution of the spiritual world is described, not only as to its general features, but as to all necessary particulars. The stupendous things of heaven are revealed in language that every one can understand. They that seek for knowledge as to man's state of life in the eternal world, shall surely find it by reading the Writings.

I.—That is so. The beauty of it is, that what is taught in the works of Swedenborg about the future state, so far as I can learn, is in harmony with the Scriptures, with sound reason, and at the same time with all true science and philosophy.

M.—With regard to your question, for example. We can now understand what our lord means when He says: "In my Father's house are many mansions" (John xiv. 2). By the "Father's house," heaven is evidently meant. There are mansions there. And for what other purpose could the mansions be except for the angels to dwell in? Heaven is arranged by the Lord into innumerable angelic societies, each and all according to Divine order.

I.—So the angels are not altogether, in one vast amphitheatre-like place? It has been taught that they are continually standing in the presence of God, and engaged in nothing else but devotional exercises. According to this notion, heaven has been described as a place

"Where congregations ne'er break up, And Sabbaths have no end."

But it seems to me that the countless myriads of good people, including all the innocent little ones, who have during the past ages gone to heaven, would make rather a large congregation to be in one place.

M.—As soon as any one obtains an intelligent idea of how heaven is constituted, these erroneous notions will vanish. The immensity of heaven is beyond the conception of the finite mind. When we try to form an idea of the area required to furnish standing room for those who have gone to heaven during some thousands of years, we can easily see the absurdity of the notion that they are all standing and worshipping God before a throne. The heavens consist of angelic societies innumerable, those who are in similar spiritual states dwelling together. The angels have mansions or houses, in which they live. The angels are human beings that once lived in this natural world. By leading a good life they were purified of evils; and after death they were raised up as to their spiritual bodies, and are now in a blessed state in the heavenly world.

I.—How and by whom are the mansions of the angels of heaven built?

M.—The lord, our Father in the heavens, creates all things for the angels. And all things—the mansions, their contents, their surroundings, and even the garments in which the angels are clothed—are perfectly suitable to, and in correspondence with, their heavenly state of life. They are all that their inmost hearts could desire.

I.—There is something delightful about these definite ideas. But tell us how and by whom they were communicated to men in this world.

M.—In ancient times men talked with the angels face to face, and they had correct knowledges concerning man's future state. But in the processes of the ages, men became natural-minded, and lost sight of the fact of the existence of the spiritual world. In order to restore to the men of the Church this knowledge, the lord required a human instrument, through whom to reveal it. Thus, as we believe, He raised up Emanuel Swedenborg, prepared him, and then let him into the spiritual world, that from actual observation he might give a description of that world. Permit me to read you a passage or two from one of his works. In speaking of the homes of the angels, he says:

''As often as I have spoken with the angels face to face, so often have I been with them in their habitations. Their habitations are quite like the habitations on earth called houses, but more beautiful; in them are parlours, rooms, and bed-chambers, in great numbers; there are also courts, and round about are gardens, shrubberies, and fields. "Palaces of heaven have been seen, which were so magnificent that they could not be described: above they shone as if they were of pure gold, and below as if they were of precious stones, some being more splendid than others. Within it was the same; the rooms were adorned with such decorations as neither language nor science can adequately describe. On the side which looked to the south, there were paradises, where all things shone in such a way, in some places the leaves as of silver, and the fruits as of gold; and the flowers in their beds presented, by their colours, the appearance of rainbows" (H. H. 184, 185).

I.—The description is very beautiful; and he also says that he saw these things in full wakefulness, that is, consciously, when his interior sight was opened. But since the angels live in mansions, do they also have furniture, such as chairs, tables, writing-desks, and book-cases?

M.—Yes; it is not likely that the angels would care to stand all the time, any more than people in this world. And so we may reasonably believe that they have chairs to sit upon. Not only are the habitations of the angels provided with furniture, but they are also adorned with most magnificent objects of various kinds, which are correspondences of beautiful ideas, and are the means of giving them interior delight.

I.—It is wonderful to think that it should be so; but I do not see why we should doubt the truth of it; because the spiritual world is real and substantial. It takes an infinite variety of objects to make a world.

M.—We are informed that in the other world there are all things that exist on earth; but the things there are composed of spiritual substance, and are immensely more perfect in form than they are here. This idea is even expressed by Milton, who makes Raphael say:

"What if earth Be but the shadow of heaven, and things therein Each to other like, more than on earth is thought."

The prophets Ezekiel and Daniel saw temples in heaven, besides a great many other things. And all things described in the Revelation were seen and heard by John in the spiritual world. For he was "in the spirit," when the lord appeared to him, and commanded him to "write in a book" the things that he saw (Rev. i. 10, 11, 19).

I.—Do you suppose the angels have in their mansions such things as pianos and other musical instruments, upon which they can perform?

M.—There is no doubt of it. For all things that exist in this world have their origin in the spiritual world. That is the world of causes, and this of effects. In heaven they have both vocal and instrumental music; and that they have it there in greater perfection than here, we may well believe. In the work on Conjugial Love, No. 17, you will find a description of "concerts of music and singing" in heaven. There are mentioned "wind and stringed instruments of various tones, both high and low, loud and soft," besides other particulars. And what cultured person can doubt that music is of a heavenly origin! A mansion on earth is not considered to be completely furnished unless it has an instrument or instruments of music. How, then, can we doubt that the angels have them in their mansions? We read of praising the lord with the sound of the trumpet, with the psaltery and harp, with the timbrel and cymbals, with stringed instruments and organs (Ps. cl. 3-5). John heard the voice of harpers playing upon their harps in heaven (Rev. xiv. 2). And he also describes, in most sublime language, several glorifications of the lord, who is the God of heaven. The angels sang these glorifications (Rev. vii. 10-12, xv. 2-4).

I.—It seems to be true, then, that "the earth is but the shadow of heaven."

M.—All things good, useful, and beautiful on the earth, are correspondences of things that exist in heaven. The angels have beautiful homes, surrounded with scenes of magnificence and splendour, because they have permitted themselves to be regenerated, and thus by a life of use have attained beauty of human character. The good are always beautiful. The angels are also clothed in fine garments and robes, corresponding to their internal beauty of heavenly and angelic character. The lord gives them all things gratis, while they, under Divine guidance, perform uses which conduce to the happiness of the inhabitants of the universal heavens. The habitations and paradises of the angels are illuminated with the glorious light that proceeds from the sun of heaven. In the effulgence and warmth of that Divine sun, they live in a blessed state which is to endure to all eternity. And to all the faithful sons and daughters of earth—to all who believe in God and do His will— is addressed the bright prophetic promise: "The lord shall be to thee for a light of eternity, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended" (Isa. lx. 20).

I.—How good our heavenly Father is! How great His kindness, to reveal to the children of men such knowledges respecting the spiritual world and eternal life! And how grateful should we be to Him for thus furnishing the means for our enlightenment, our encouragement, and consolation!

III. THE SECOND ADVENT OF THE LORD.

"The Second Coming of the lord is effected by means of a Man, before whom He has manifested Himself in Person, and whom He has filled with His Spirit, to teach the Doctrines of the New Church through the Word from Him."—T.C.R. 779.

INQUIRER.—As you are a preacher of the doctrines of the New Jerusalem, we should like to hear from you an explanation of your views respecting the Second Coming of Christ.

missionary.—I shall with great pleasure give you an explanation of the subject, so far as we shall be able to consider it in the brief space of time that we can devote to it on this occasion.

I.—I regret that our time is so limited; but for the present, at least, we shall have to be content with the information you can give us.

M.—The theme you have suggested is a very grand one. It is, indeed, a subject which every believer in the doctrines of Christianity ought to thoroughly understand. Comparatively few do understand it, because they have no doctrine to enlighten them concerning it; nor do they desire any. And many even assert that it is impossible for any one to understand such subjects, which is, doubtless, because they have no interest in spiritual things.

I.—It is quite probable that such is the case. But I can assure you that my desire is very great to understand it better than I have ever been able to do thus far.

M.—They that ask shall receive. They that seek for light will surely find it, in due time; for the Lord does not leave His followers to walk in darkness, but gives them the light of life.

I.—Yes; light is what we want,—what we need, and must have. It is terribly uncertain to travel in the dark spiritually as well as naturally. I have been for some time longing for light on several dark problems. At least to me they are dark; and it would be a real delight to have these things made intelligible.

M.—The light is given, and it will come to you as fast as you can receive it. The lord is the Light of the World. He has effected His Second Coming spiritually, and thus the Sun of Righteousness has arisen anew. There was a long night of falsity and ignorance respecting things heavenly and Divine; and this period of the world's history is called "the Dark Ages." It was described many centuries before, in these words: "Behold, darkness shall cover the earth, and thick darkness the people" (Isa. lx. 2).

I.—And you understand these words of the prophet to mean a state of falsity and ignorance as to spiritual things?

M.—Yes; a person who has no knowledge of spiritual truth cannot have an enlightened mind, but must be in a dark spiritual state. And if evil be joined with falsity, it is a state of "thick darkness."

I.—The Dark Ages were terrible, indeed. It makes one shudder to think of the religious persecutions, and the diabolical deeds that were done in those days: when, for example, they so cruelly tortured people, and killed their bodies in order that they might, as they imagined, save their souls.

M.—The Lord alluded to those persecutions, when He said: "Then shall be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Matt. xxiv. 21). But it pleased the lord, in His mercy, to provide that those days might be "shortened." It was not in the order of the Divine Providence to permit the powers of darkness to triumph, and to continue the reign of relentless cruelty for ever. The lord knew that He would effect His Second Coming spiritually, and this He foretold in the sublime words: "And the glory of the lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see together; for the mouth of the lord hath spoken" (Isa. xl. 5).

I.—My friend here is an Adventist, and we cannot agree on this subject of the Second Advent of Christ at all; because he takes all the Scriptures literally, and affirms his belief in the personal coming of Christ into this natural world. To me such an idea seems absurd, because the lord Jesus Christ is God, consequently He is the Divine Being; and how could He come personally into this natural world?

M.—The Scriptures apparently teach the idea of the personal coming of the lord in a few passages, but in reality they do not teach this. To be consistent, in our method of the interpretation of the Scriptures on this subject, we must take all the passages referring to it together, and thus learn the spirit of their teaching as a whole. For us to construct theories which are based on one class of passages merely, is neither wise nor useful, because it cannot lead to a rational understanding of the subject.

I.—That is just what I have often told my literalistic friends. The theory of the personal coming of the lord is based on certain passages, and then we find many other passages which flatly contradict them, and evidently teach an entirely different doctrine. And this thing is confusing. There is no light, but only darkness in it. And it seems to me that, in order to understand the subject intelligently, there ought to be a method of interpretation which harmonizes all these contradictions.

M.—Your remarks are quite correct. And allow me to assure you that the doctrine of the New Church does harmonize the contradictions found in the letter of the Divine Word. These contradictions are merely apparent, not real. The Scriptures teach Divine Truth throughout. The Word of God contains an inner sense. In fact, we are taught that the Word has a natural sense, a spiritual sense, and a celestial sense; and that in each sense it is Divine.

I.—Paul says: "The letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life" (2 Cor. iii. 6). Does he mean that the natural sense alone is insufficient to enable one to understand a subject?

M.—He evidently had some idea of the true method of Scripture interpretation. The lord also says: "It is the Spirit that quickeneth; . . . the words that I speak unto you are spirit, and are life" (John vi. 63). By the "spirit" is meant the spiritual sense, in which are to be seen the living, beautiful, clear, and rational ideas contained in the literal sense. In the Writings of the New Church, given through the instrumentality of Emanuel Swedenborg, the lord revealed the spiritual sense of the Word. In these spiritual Writings we have the Divine doctrine which enables us to understand the Scriptures rationally. They throw a flood of light upon all subjects. The darkness of falsity and ignorance is dissipated. A new and glorious spiritual day has dawned. We are living at the beginning of a New Era. Men who can receive the Divine Truth in rational forms may now become enlightened Christians; may have all their doubts and difficulties removed; and may rejoice in the precious light of the New Jerusalem.

I.—What you say is most cheering and encouraging to one who is in search of light and knowledge concerning spiritual things.

M.—The genuine truth is exceedingly gratifying to one who can receive it, and one who has a sincere desire for it. Genuine truth is satisfying in its nature, but apparent truth is not. For example, it is an apparent truth—in the mere letter of the Word—that the lord Jesus Christ rose from the tomb in His material body. And, accordingly, theologians have for ages taught that the Saviour ascended into heaven in a material body, because they have had no true doctrine to teach them as to the nature of our lord's Body after the Resurrection. From the mere letter they did not learn that the lord glorified His Human, i.e. made it Divine, and did not, therefore, have a material body after His resurrection, nor was ever seen with bodily eyes or with natural sight after that event. This is the genuine truth of the matter, as can be very plainly shown from the Scriptures, when we take the time and the pains to investigate them.

I.—I should like to ask the theologians these questions: If Christ ascended in a physical body, where did He go? Did He then begin a journey through the immensity of space, to go to a region called heaven, somewhere in the material universe? And if so, how long would it require to make the journey? But in order to pass through space in a physical body, would it not be necessary first to entirely change the constitution of the natural universe? What answer, think you, would they give to these questions?

M.—I do not know, except it be that "with God all things are possible." But the questions you have proposed are as legitimate as they are pointed. They cannot be satisfactorily answered from the standpoint of the old theology. And it requires a great deal of explanation to answer them fully, according to the New Theology.

I.—It is not to be expected that any one should explain so great a subject in a few words. But I will not interrupt you.

M.—It is generally taken for granted that the lord rose from the tomb and ascended into heaven in a natural body. But this is merely an appearance of the truth, according to some of the circumstances mentioned in the literal sense of the Scripture. It is a perfect fallacy. Enlightened reason sees the absurdity of it at a glance. It is a case in point of how "the letter killeth." For the clinging to the literal circumstances alone, in which there is mere apparent truth, destroys all possibility of rationally understanding the genuine truth on the subject.

I.—The genuine truth is what I want to learn, and that as fast as I can.

M.—The material substance of which the lord's natural body was composed could not be transmuted into the Divine Substance which constitutes His Glorified Human. The material substances of the lord's body were put off, and returned to nature, when the Human was made Divine. How the Human was made Divine, neither angels nor men can fully comprehend. The process was miraculous and inscrutable. The finite mind cannot grasp all the ways of the Infinite God. It is a Divine Truth that the lord glorified His Human, though we do not know much about how He did so. But this is no cause for objection to the doctrine revealed to us; for we do not fully understand the formation of the buds and blossoms, the leaves and fruits, upon the trees. The process of growth is miraculous and inscrutable. And there are many of the most familiar operations of nature that we know very little about.

I.—Very true, indeed. The existence of the sun, for instance, is a most stupendous miracle. And what shall we say of the tremendous force which is exerted by means of the sun to perpetually keep so many ponderous planets in motion? Is not the law of motion, as well as the process of growth, miraculous? Do we not behold wonders amazing, and phenomena inscrutable, everywhere throughout the physical universe? I consider your illustration a good one. And I can plainly see that it is not wise to reject a revealed truth, because we do not fully comprehend it at the outset.

M.—No; we must first understand general principles, and then we may enter more and more into particulars. But let us return to the subject. And here I wish to say that our literalistic friends, who affirm the notion of the personal coming, imagine that the lord actually ascended into heaven in a natural body. Such questions as you asked a few minutes ago do not, perhaps, arise in their minds. And to confirm their view they employ one apparent truth to prove another; and the result cannot be otherwise than fallacious. They quote from the account of the lord's ascension these words: "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven" (Acts i. 11).

I.—And this is one of the very passages I want to have explained.

M.—Well, in the first place, only the eleven apostles were present at the lord's ascension (Mark xvi. 14-20; Acts i. 1-14). And, in the second place, they did not then see Him with their ordinary natural sight. The fact is that the ascension of our lord was a spiritual vision, and was beheld with the spiritual eyes of the apostles. We read that after His resurrection they did not know Him until "their eyes were opened,"—their spiritual eyes, of course. (See Luke xxiv. 31.) The lord manifested Himself to them in such a form that they could see Him and know Him. With the bodily eye no man can see a spiritual being; and much less could he in that manner see the Divine Being.

I.—I never heard such an explanation of these subjects before. It is wonderful, and yet scriptural and reasonable.

M.—We can see, then, that the lord's ascension was in all respects spiritual. And so will His Second Coming, "in like manner," be effected spiritually; and not by a personal appearance in the natural world. Those who expect to see Him coming in the clouds and descend to the earth, establish a throne, and reign with His saints literally for a period of a thousand years, are as much in error as were the Jews who thought that when Messiah should make His appearance, it would be to release them from the galling yoke of their subjection to the Romans, make of them the greatest of the nations, and reign over them as a mighty and glorious king. But the Messiah came in a very different manner from that in which they had expected. He afterwards said: "My kingdom is not of this world" (John xviii. 36). It was not of this world in the sense in which they thought.

adventist.—But we read: "They shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory" (Matt. xxiv. 30). What do you make of this declaration? Does it not mean what it says?

M.—It does not mean what it says literally; but these words must be understood as to their spiritual sense. Thus, to "see" means to understand. The "Son of Man" is the lord, with respect to the Divine Truth. "Coming" signifies revelation from the lord and concerning Him. Now, observe that He is to come "in the clouds of heaven." But what we call clouds are the clouds of the earth. They belong to the earth, and are composed of earthy substances, i.e. vapour, or simply water in the form of vapour. The "clouds of heaven" mean the literal sense of the Word of God. And the "power and great glory" mean the inner and spiritual sense.

I.—I for my part do not see any reason for objecting to the interpretation of the passage.

A.—And I cannot say that I am prepared to accept it.

M.—Well, let us proceed a little further. We can plainly see that a personal coming of the lord would necessarily be a local coming, i.e. a coming in some particular locality of the earth.

I.—According to the "in like manner" theory, regarded literally, He would require to come down at Bethany (Luke xxiv. 50). And then we read: "Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him "(Rev. i. 7). But how all the myriads on myriads of human beings could get near enough to Bethany, so as literally to see Him with their bodily eyes, is one of those things that is quite incomprehensible. To my mind the notion of a personal coming appears more absurd the longer we continue the investigation.

M.—In the twenty-fourth of Matthew, where the lord speaks of His Second Coming, He plainly teaches that it is not personal or local, but universal (chap. xxiv. 23-27). You see that the lord actually warns His followers against being deceived by literalistic notions and fallacies, respecting the momentous subject of the Second Advent (vers. 4, 5). The Light of the Divine Truth, which the lord has revealed concerning His Divine nature, personality, character, and attributes, in that He has made His Second Advent spiritually, may now illuminate men's minds, and protect them from the deceptions of the fallacies which have been concocted by the busy imaginations of certain persons, from their mere self-derived intelligence.

I.—The light of Divine Truth! What a beautiful expression it is! And how much the truth can do for us, if we can but obtain it, and heartily and intelligently appreciate it! And what transcendent glories must it reveal to our delighted spiritual vision, when in the lord's own Divine Light we shall see light! In fact, the mere glimpse of it that I have obtained to-day gives me an inward feeling of unspeakable joy.

A.—I haven't got far enough on to go into such ecstasies over your Swedenborgian explanation of the subject.

I.—But you have heard enough to set you a-thinking. And you will not reflect on these things many days, I venture to say, until some of your old ideas about the literal and personal coming will drop out of your mind. At least you ought to drop them at once, and accept a more intelligible view, such as we have just listened to.

A.—It is, of course, possible that I may change my views about these matters by and by, but I cannot see the need of doing so just yet.

M.—The lord effected His Second Coming, spiritually, by revealing the spiritual sense of the Divine Word; by giving spiritual knowledges on all subjects that come within the scope of human investigation, reception, and experience; thus, by making an Immediate Revelation out of the Word, which is the crown of all Divine Revelations ever made to mankind. This Revelation we have in the Writings of the New Church, given to the world by the lord, through the instrumentality of His servant, Emanuel Swedenborg. And this Revelation was made according to the lord's own intimation to His disciples, saying: "I have yet many things to tell you, but ye cannot bear them now." And also according to His promise: "The hour cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in parables, but when I shall show you plainly from the Father" (John xvi. 12, 25).

I.—You seem at no loss to find appropriate and convincing Scripture proof, to bear out what you affirm.

A.—Any one can quote Scripture, no matter what may be the nature of his doctrine.

M.—The objects for which the lord made His Second Coming are most grand, beneficent, imperative, glorious, and momentous. Thus, the lord performed the Divine work of Redemption anew, and again prepared the way for the salvation of the human race. By the wonderful unfoldments of the Divine Truth, and the merciful impartations of the Divine Love, the lord continues to come into the hearts and minds of His people. He comes to establish His New Church, signified by the New Jerusalem, which is to be the crowning glory of the latter days. And of this Church it is prophetically written: There was given to the Son of Man, who came with the clouds of heaven, dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages should serve Him: His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom that which shall not be destroyed (Daniel vii. 13, 14).

I.—And there is also a parallel passage which reads: "The kingdoms of this world are become of our lord and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever" (Rev. xi. 15). I always like to read these sublime ascriptions to the lord, who is the God of heaven and earth, because there seems to be something elevating about them.

M.—It is always elevating to the mind for us to acknowledge the lord as All in all, and to humbly feel that we are but finite recipients from Him, the Infinite Giver of every perfect gift.

I.—The maxim of the ancient philosophers that "we are also God's offspring" is more clearly rendered by the apostle: "In Him we live, and move, and have our being." This involves far greater wisdom than is manifested by some of our modern philosophers, who believe in matter only, and reject the idea of the existence of spirit; who doubt and even deny the grand truth of a personal Creator and Preserver of the universe.

M.—In His Second Advent, the lord has restored the means, in all fullness and abundance, for men to acquire rational knowledges respecting all things earthly and heavenly, all things spiritual and Divine. Now is being fulfilled the prophecy enunciated by Him who, sitting upon the throne, said: "Behold, I make all things new" (Rev. xxi. 5). They that learn to understand the Divine Truth, now revealed by the lord in the heavenly doctrines of the New Jerusalem, and thus become intelligent and wise in the spiritual sense of the Word, by means of the literal sense, "See the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory."

I.—I must thank you most sincerely for your explanations; and I trust it wall not be long before we meet again, because there are several other leading subjects that I should be delighted to converse about. One can read, of course, and get information; but it is not like a good talk with a person who is familiar with these things.

M.—I am very pleased to have met you, and to have had the opportunity of this conversation with you. It is always gratifying to meet with those who have an interest in spiritual things, and can appreciate the Divine Truth which the lord has revealed to us in His Second Advent.

IV. THE END OF THE WORLD.

"Neither the visible heaven nor the habitable earth will perish, but both will remain for ever."—L.J. 1.

inquirer.—That is the way you New Churchmen shock people, who are not familiar with your views.

MISSIONARY.—I do not see why it should shock any one to say that the earth will never be destroyed.

I.—We have always been taught, you know, that there is to be a day of judgment, and that then the world will come to an end.

M.—True, it has been generally taught and believed that a judgment will some day take place here in the natural world. But this clashes with the teaching of the Scriptures. The Apostle Paul says: "It is appointed unto men once to die, and after that the judgment" (Heb. ix. 27). According to this statement, the judgment will be after death; consequently in the spiritual world, and not in the natural. This is taught all through the Bible.

I.—But is it not stated in several passages in the Bible, that the world will actually come to an end?

M.—The expression "the end of the world" occurs five times in Matthew; but it is in each case an erroneous translation. It ought to read, "the consummation of the age." This is the marginal reading in the revised version, as you will see in the following places: xiii. 39, 40, 49, xxiv. 3, xxviii. 20.

I.—I was not aware of that.

M.—In the mere letter the Bible contradicts itself. In some passages it appears to teach that the earth and the universe will finally be destroyed. On the other hand, it also declares that the earth shall endure for ever, as in Ecclesiastes i. 4, and in Psalm civ. 5.

I.—How then do you explain it?

M.—We will come to the explanation very soon; permit me to say here that the true method of the interpretation of the Bible harmonizes all its contradictions. The Word contains a spiritual sense. The Lord speaks in parables. Natural things convey spiritual ideas. Material objects are used to teach heavenly principles. Thus the real meaning is in the spiritual sense of the Scriptures. "The words that I speak unto you, are spirit, and are life," says the Divine Teacher.

I.—You seem to mean much the same by a "spiritual sense" as we do by "figurative expressions."

M.—The Word contains a spiritual sense in every part. And in the Epistles, when Peter, for example, appears to be describing a universal conflagration, he is certainly making use of figurative language. For, taken literally, he would be contradicting David and Solomon.

I.—Yes, I see.

M.—When John had written the words in Revelation xxi. 1,—"I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away,"—the very same physical heavens and earth existed as before. These had not passed away; nor will they ever pass away in the sense of being burned up or destroyed. In fact, the material heavens and earth are not meant at all, any more than our Lord means natural salt when He says to the disciples, "Ye are the salt of the earth" (Matt. v. 13).

I.—What do you understand by the new heavens and the new earth?

M.—The new heavens and the new earth are new states and conditions on the part of the people who constitute the Lord's Church. There are new states and conditions because the Lord has effected His Second Coming, by making a revelation of the spiritual sense of the Word, and by giving genuine spiritual knowledges on all subjects. And in this, His Second Advent, the Lord is at this day establishing a New Church, meant by the New Jerusalem in the Book of Revelation.

I.—I now begin to get some new ideas.

M. —Well, then, let me try to give you another new idea. God can no more destroy the universe, or the earth, than He can destroy the immutability of His character.

I.—Are not all things possible with God?

M.—Let us consider my assertion logically and rationally; for whatever is not capable of demonstration, according to genuine logic and sound reason, cannot be true. Now I say emphatically, that it is absolutely impossible for God ever to destroy His universe. God is the Creator, the Upholder, the Preserver, of the stupendous fabric of creation. This grand truth is revealed to us in the Scriptures. The immutability of the Divine character is also plainly taught. God is "the same yesterday, to-day, and for ever." Does it not, therefore, follow as a logical conclusion, that since God is the Creator and Preserver of the world, and is also immutable, He will remain for ever the same? How can He at any time entirely change His essential Divine nature, and from a beneficent Creator, become a ruthless Destroyer of His own works? Is not such an idea in the highest degree irrational and absurd?

I.—I admit that there is a great deal of force in your method of reasoning on the subject. But since the natural body of man perishes, why not the natural earth also?

M.—Your question is perfectly legitimate. I will try to answer it, though I confess it is somewhat difficult. In the first place, however, I would say that it is not strictly true that the natural body of man does perish. It is only apparently so. The natural body has no life or sensation of itself. All the life and sensations that are manifested in the body are by virtue of the spirit that dwells within the body. The spirit is in the human form, is composed of spiritual substance, and is the man himself that survives the dissolution of the body. The body is said to perish, or to die; but the truth is, that when the spirit is separated from it, as man enters into the eternal world, then the material substances of which the body was composed, are dissolved, and thus return to the earth from which they were taken. But the material substance of which the body was formed is not destroyed nor annihilated. The form has been changed, but every particle of substance still exists. Matter is indestructible. You understand me thus far?

I.—I think so; proceed, please.

M.—Well, in the second place, I would say, that there is no correct analogy, or logical comparison, between the dissolution of man's natural body and the destruction or annihilation of the material world. Matter of itself, in the absolute sense, is nothing, and cannot exist. The natural earth exists because there is a spiritual world. And the natural earth is the outbirth from the spiritual world; and can no more exist separate from it than the body of man can exist separate from the soul or spirit. The two worlds are indeed distinct as to the nature of the substances of which they are respectively composed. This earth is formed of material substances, while the other world is made of spiritual substances. And they are, nevertheless, very intimately related to each other; are in connection with each other, comparatively like soul and body. The Divine power of God flows in through the spiritual world, and keeps all things of the physical universe in being. Nature cannot create itself and exist of itself any more than a watch can make itself, and keep time without being wound up.

I.—I should like to hear a little more about the reasons why it is impossible, as you affirm, for God to destroy the universe. It has seemed to me that with God all things are possible. He is the Almighty.

M.—God is an infinitely perfect Being. He is Divine order itself. "Order is heaven's first law." Without laws of order the universe could not exist for an instant. Not all things are possible with God. It is not possible for Him to do anything that is disorderly. He cannot violate the laws of Divine order which He has ordained for the government of His universe. Such an idea is inadmissible and unthinkable when we think rationally.

I.—You New Churchmen have quite a new way of looking at things.

M.—Yes, we try to get along with as little nonsense as possible on these great questions. We need not launch into wild speculations; because in the New Church doctrines rational knowledges have been given us on all these subjects.

I.—Have you anything more to tell me about the matter we have been discussing?

M.—Yes; before we drop the subject, I should like to make a few more remarks. God created the universe according to His own Divine order. Since He is the Creator, and is immutable, He certainly cannot change into a Destroyer. He created the world to the beneficent end that He might form angelic heavens from the human race. This life, with all its experiences, is intended as a preparation for eternal life. We have no good ground to imagine that this beautiful earth of ours will ever be dissipated into gases, and thus return into a chaotic condition. We cannot reasonably suppose that it will be consumed by fire; that all the oceans, rocks, and mountains, and the solid globe itself, will ever be burned up and clean dissolved. The spiritual world is the medium through which the Creator sustains the natural earth. The spiritual world will never be removed from the natural world, as the spirit is removed from the body at the time man is said to die. The material world will not,, therefore, be subject to dissolution in like manner as the material body of man. The spirit world and the natural are related to each other like cause and effect. As there can be no effect without a cause, so there cannot be a natural world without a spiritual. The physical earth is gradually and constantly undergoing changes. It is not two hours precisely the same. These changes are analogous to those that take place in the human body. The earth is destined to become more beautiful, more desirable, as a temporary home for man throughout the ages of the future. As regards its continued existence, I believe the earth to be as enduring as the heavens. It seems to me to accord well with enlightened human reason to think that the entire glorious universe will be perpetuated, to subserve those wise and benevolent uses for the sake of which it was brought into existence. So that it is literally a grand philosophic truth, that "One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh; but the earth abideth for ever" (Eccles. i. 4).

I.—These explanations, I must say, are very interesting to me; and it seems as though your doctrines ought to do much in the course of time to enlighten the world on many difficult problems.

V. THE INSPIRATION OF THE WORD.

"The lord giveth the Word: great is the host of them that bear . the tidings."—psalm lxvii.11.

INQUIRER.—Do you believe in the Divine Inspiration of the Scriptures?

MISSIONARY.—We do, indeed; as you will see by the second article of our Creed, which reads as follows: "I believe in the Sacred Scripture, which is the Word of God, Holy and Divine in the letter and in the spirit, and the Source of all wisdom to angels and to men."

I.—"The Source of all wisdom to angels and to men." How do you understand this statement?

M.—It simply means that there is no other Source of knowledge, respecting things spiritual, heavenly, and Divine, than the Sacred Scripture, and that which is derived therefrom. The Sacred Scripture is a Divine Revelation of spiritual and heavenly things; and those knowledges which transcend the scientific and natural plane of thought, can be communicated to man, and received intelligently by man, in no other way than by means of Revelation, that is, by means of truths revealed to us.

I.—I never thought of the subject in that light before. It is to me a new idea.

M.—If you will reflect upon the subject, you will soon see that it is so. The mere substances and forms of nature do not teach you anything spiritual. A man may become a very learned scientist, a most profound natural philosopher; he may use the microscope and discover untold wonders, marvellous beauties, in the structure of forms that are totally invisible to the naked eye; or, he may use the telescope, and behold the stupendous grandeur of the great universe; may learn that it consists of a grand aggregation of countless numbers of universes; may see that all things are governed by immutable laws; that everywhere there is order, harmony, development, and thus perpetual creation going on: but if he rejects the Scripture as a Divine Revelation, he will not believe in the existence of God, the Infinite Creator and Upholder of the universe. Faith in God will seem to him puerile.

I.—This would no doubt be true of some of the learned, but not of all. I think there are some men who reject the Bible as a Divinely inspired Book, who nevertheless believe in the existence of a God.

M.—I have no doubt of that. There are some among the learned that reject the Scriptures, on account of the absurd notions and irrational dogmas which have been ascribed to them, by the literalistic interpretations of a false theology.

I.—It is not to be wondered at, that men of even ordinary intelligence reject the Scriptures, on that ground. But, of course, there is a vast amount of nonsense that passes for good "orthodox" doctrine, which in fact is not taught in the Bible at all. There are many things that I have never been able to reconcile with common sense, not to speak of sound logic, the use of which is surely legitimate.

M.—I wish here to affirm the correctness of the position, that natural things, in themselves, do not teach man a single idea respecting anything spiritual. The Apostle truly says: "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor. ii. 14).

I.—Yes; Paul puts it in a pointed way, that is, spiritual things are to be spiritually understood: is that the idea?

M.—That is evidently the meaning he wishes to convey. And if a man will receive enlightenment from the Word, by means of doctrine derived from the Word; if his mind is formed by genuine truths of Revelation, concerning the existence and nature of God, concerning man and his relations to God, and concerning many other important subjects; then he can illustrate and confirm spiritual things by means of natural. Then he will be enabled to elevate his thoughts to the devout contemplation of things heavenly and eternal. Spiritual verities will no more be foolishness to him. He will be prepared to believe in the existence of spirit as an actuality, as well as of matter: will no more doubt that there is a spiritual world of most glorious and stupendous realities, than that there is a material world, the existence of which is itself a perpetual miracle. And he will be a devout believer, both in the Divinity of the lord and in the Inspiration of the Word.

I.—Provided, always, allow me to add, that the Word is taken for what it really is. It seems to me that the Bible must be a spiritual and Divine book; and that it must therefore be spiritually understood, according to a Divine method of interpretation; if there is such a thing.

M.—The lord, who gave the Word, by inspiration, has not left mankind in the dark as regards its true import. He has also provided a Divine method for its interpretation; and they that accept and use this, need not search the Scriptures in vain. There is a flood of light thrown upon all the "dark sayings of old"; and all subjects may now be more thoroughly investigated, and more clearly comprehended. "Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined" (Ps. l. 2); that is, He has made a revelation of the spiritual sense of the Word; and this "to give light to them that sit in darkness and the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace" (Luke i. 79).

I.—I want to learn about this revelation of the spiritual sense, of which you speak. But in the first place I want to ask about an expression in your Creed. It says, I think, that the Word of God is "the Source of all wisdom to angels and to men." Does your Church teach, then, that the Word also exists in heaven, and that the angels there have it as a written Revelation?

M.—Yes; we read: "For ever, O lord, Thy Word is settled in the heavens" (Ps. cxix. 89). It is also declared that "God is the Word" (John i. 1), —according to the original. The lord is the God of heaven; and it is the Divine Sphere of the lord that constitutes heaven. The Word also exists in the heavens; and the angels are in intelligence and wisdom, from the lord, by means of the Word. This is what the Writings of the New Church teach us; and they contain an immense amount of definite information concerning the subject. You see, in the New Church we need not bring forth ideas from our own imaginations; because we have an abundance of ideas and truths and principles revealed to us from the lord respecting things spiritual, heavenly, and Divine.

I.—Wonderful! The things you are telling me are, in fact, nothing less than a revelation to me. May I ask, what sort of a language is it in which the angels have the Word?

M.—The angels are spiritual beings, dwelling in the heavens in the spiritual world. They are "the spirits of just men made perfect" (Heb. xii. 23). They are "ministering spirits sent forth to minister to them who shall be heirs of salvation" (Heb. i. 14). They are the proclaimers of "Good tidings of great joy" to a benighted and sin-stricken world (Luke ii. 10-14). They are the lord's hosts, "that excel in strength, that do His commandments, hearkening to the voice of His word" (Ps. ciii. 20). They are the lord's redeemed ones, gathered home to heaven, from all parts of the habitable globe (Rev. vii. 9-17). The angels of the universal heavens were once men, or human beings, in a natural world. But they are now spiritual beings, inhabiting the glorious and peaceful abodes of the heavenly world. They are nevertheless finite beings, endowed with the faculties of finite minds; and therefore require Divine instruction. And this they receive from the lord, the God of heaven, by means of the Word.

I.—Your remarks are very acceptable, because exceedingly instructive; but you have not yet answered my question.

M.—I was just on the point of doing so. The doctrines